LF: Casey, when we reached the Grand Palais they were about to close it. We have miscalculated the trip from the XVIII-ieme arrondissement to the centre. However, it is a huge shame we missed your performance.

We went to the Palais de Tokyo afterwards and talked to Jerome (Sans) real quickly, about you, too. Missed you again. I couldn't call you because our international cell phone didn't work; the hotel we were at was "under construction", only sporadic email access, and no phone in the room until Sunday.

 (Two weeks later.)

CASEY: Dear Lillian, I can't remember if i have gotten back to you yet BUT i am back at my desk in NYC and trying to tie up loose ends.  We are still interested in doing something with you please be in touch.

LF: Hi Casey, we would still want to work with you. We would love to learn more about your collaboration. Your documentation, description, essay, journal entries, catalogue of questions about your collaboration can take any form (okay, this is a circular argument).

CASEY: Ok, here is how we should proceed. I will provide you with some feedback to your inquires you respond to that with more inquires and we can build from there.

LF: Anyway, how do you start a project? Does each one of you collect ideas in a little box or a black book--rigid images stir my inspirational drive as they press for deviation?

CASEY: IT VARIES... SOMETIMES IT'S A CONVERSATION. WE BOTH TAKE A LOT OF NOTES IN OUR BLACK NOTE BOOKS.

LF: What exactly is your art background?

CASEY: I TOOK A CERAMICS CLASS IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT FOR A FORMAL ART BACKGROUND. I DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AFTER THE 10TH GRADE. 

LF: You studied with the same teacher. At the same time?

CASEY: YES, WE WORKED AS ART ASSISTANTS UNDER TOM SACHS AT THE SAME TIME FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS; HE WAS LIKE A TEACHER.

LF: What is the age difference between you two? Did you play together as children?

CASEY: THERE ARE 6 YEARS BETWEEN US (VAN 30, CASEY 24). NO WE DIDN'T PLAY TOGETHER, I MOSTLY PLAYED WITH MY SISTER. SHE'S 1 YEAR OLDER THAN ME AND MY BABY BROTHER DEAN WHO IS 2 YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME (AND CURRENTLY FLYING FIGHTER JETS FOR THE US AIR FORCE. (DEAN NEISTAT IS 22 YEARS OLD).

LF: I fear (or rather enjoy) that this delayed conversation takes a very personal direction. I am sure that I don't have to emphasize that you are not obliged to answer to all of my questions, and that you can ask me back—as this is, again, a conversation.

First off another question: How come  I am communicating with you and not the two of you, or your brother?

CASEY: BECAUSE I WAS THE ONE WHO REPLIED TO THE ORIGINAL EMAIL.  VAN IS ON THE COMPUTER NEXT TO ME. WHEN I GET TIRED OF ANSWERING I CAN PUT HIM ON. IF YOU WANT HIM SOONER JUST ASK.

LF: Sure. When you start a new project there would also be the possibility of me sitting in when you are working together, documenting what I see, hear, feel, smell (oh, yes, the whole package). That would be highly experimental and maybe falsify the actual process but could be very interesting.

CASEY: PROVIDED YOU ARE SMALL AND QUIET AND DON'T ASK QUESTIONS YOU ARE WELCOME TO SIT IN THE STUDIO ANY TIME. A JOURNALIST REQUESTED THIS A WHILE AGO AND WAS SURPRISED WITH WHAT SHE FOUND. AS EXCITING AS THE WORK IS AND AS ENERGETIC AS WE ARE, THE DAY-TO-DAY HOUR-TO-HOUR HAPPENINGS ARE MUNDANE IN OUR STUDIO. I SIT AT MY DESK, VAN AT HIS AND WE WORK, VERY LITTLE ACTION.

VAN: YOU CAN SIT IN, BUT MOST OF WHAT WE DO IS DANGEROUS, ILLEGAL, OR FUCKING BORING, AND WE MOVE FUCKING FAST, USUALLY ON BIKES. I AM NOT A SILENT WORKER.  I SCREAM AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS. I THROW THINGS.  I AM A DESTROYER. I'VE BEEN ARRESTED AND HOSPITALIZED FOR FIST-FIGHTING.

LF: I might take you up on your welcoming gesture. I guess I could hide and watch, or fight and learn.

About your collaboration: How do you do it?

CASEY: WE WORK 5/6 DAYS A WEEK IN OUR STUDIO IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN, OUR STUDIO IS A WORK STUDIO NEITHER OF US LIVES THERE, OUR HOURS ARE ROUGHLY 8-9AM-8/9PM OUR STUDIO IS ALL ABOUT WORK. WE HAVE ONE FULL TIME ASSISTANT ARIEL SCHULMAN WHO IS A FILMMAKER HIMSELF http://www.redbucketfilms.com/ WE ENJOY OUR WORK AND LOOK FORWARD TO COMING TO THE STUDIO EVERYDAY.

LF: What does that mean you enjoy your work, what gives you joy, the studio and its atmosphere, the interaction with each other, the fact that you are artists, and what specifically does that mean to you?

VAN: MY MOTHER GAVE BIRTH TO ME AS A TEENAGER, COMMITTED MY BIOLOGICAL FATHER TO A MENTAL INSTITUTION, GOT FULL CUSTODY OF ME FROM THE COURTS, AND MOVED FROM MAINE TO CONNECTICUT WHERE SHE KNEW 1 PERSON. SHE NEVER PURSUED HER DREAM OF BECOMING A PERFORMER. CASEY'S FATHER (WHO RAISED ME FROM THE AGE OF 2, AND I REFER TO HIM AS MY FATHER) MARRIED MY MOTHER BECAUSE HE REALLY LIKED ME AND SHE GAVE HIM AN ULTIMATUM. THEY HAD 3 MORE CHILDREN TOGETHER. THEY HATED EACH OTHER. ONCE THEY HAD A 2-HOUR FIGHT IN THE CAR (WITH ALL 4 OF THE KIDS IN THE BACK) OVER WHETHER OR NOT THE SECRET INGREDIENT IN TOOTSIE ROLLS WAS ORANGE EXTRACT.  MY DAD SAID NO, MY MOM SAID YES. A SCREAMING, BITTER FIGHT. 

AS A KID I WASN'T GOOD AT ANYTHING THAT WAS VALUED BY PARENTS OR THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. I SUCKED AT SPORTS AND ACADEMICS. I WAS TINY. I WEIGHED LESS THAN 100 POUNDS UNTIL I WAS 15. I WAS FUNNY AND CAME FROM A WEIRED FAMILY WHO LIVED IN A HOUSE THAT MY MOTHER MODELED AFTER A GINGERBREAD HOUSE. OUR CARS WERE HAND-PAINTED WITH ROSE GARDENS AND BEE HIVES. WE HAD VIRTUALLY NO PARENTAL SUPERVISION. MY FATHER HATED, HATED HIS JOB AND NEVER PURSUED HIS DREAM OF BECOMING A KINDERGARTEN TEACHER. MY MOTHER IS CATHOLIC. MY FATHER IS JEWISH. I LEARNED THE BIG, BIG LESSONS IN LIFE FROM THEIR MISTAKES: HAVE CHILDREN ONLY WHEN YOU'RE READY, ONLY MARRY SOMEONE WHEN IT'S PERFECT AND ONLY FOR LOVE, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL DO AS A HUMAN BEING IS TO PURSUE AND LIVE YOUR DREAM. 

AS AMERICANS, WE ARE TAUGHT TO BELIEVE THAT OUR DREAMS CAN BE REALIZED THROUGH OUR WORK. IN AMERICA, I BELIEVE, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I AM LIVING MY DREAM NOW, BUT IT TOOK 25 YEARS FOR ME TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MY DREAM WAS. AS LAWRENCE SAYS IN THE FILM LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, "A MAN CAN BE WHATEVER HE WANTS, BUT HE CAN'T WANT WHATEVER HE WANTS." 

WHEN I WAS 25, APPLE CAME OUT WITH A COMPUTER THAT LET YOU EDIT VIDEO. I BOUGHT THAT COMPUTER WITH HALF OF ALL MY MONEY, AND I BOUGHT A VIDEO CAMERA WITH THE OTHER HALF.  ABOUT A YEAR AFTER THAT (AFTER HAVING MADE ABOUT 25 SHORT FILMS) I REALIZED I WAS A FILMMAKER, AND THAT MY DREAM WAS TO MAKE FILMS LIKE THE ONES THAT ARE AS MUCH A PART OF ME AS MY GINGERBREAD HOUSE OR THE PAINTED VOLVOS IN WHICH I GREW UP.  SO, IF YOU ASK ME WHAT AN ARTIST IS, I CAN'T TELL YOU. BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT MAKES ME ONE: A FULL COMMITMENT OF MY SELF TO MY WORK. I LIVE AN INCREDIBLE LIFE. I AM FULFILLED.

     LF: What are the complications in your collaboration?

CASEY: COMPLICATIONS ARE RARE, THE OCCASIONAL CREATIVE DISPUTE IS PRETTY MUCH OUR ONLY COMPLICATION AND USUALLY THAT DISPUTE IS LIMITED TO THE FRAMING OF A SHOT (IN A FILM) OR THE FINAL EDIT OF A FILM. WE RARILY ARGUE ABOUT IDEAS, THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS IN LINE WITH EACH OTHERS VISION OR IF ONE OF US DOESN'T 'GET' THE OTHERS IDEA WE ENCOURAGE THE OTHER TO EXECUTE THE IDEA SO WE CAN BOTH UNDERSTAND.  IT’S A POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP.

LF: How can your ideas always be in line with each other? Wouldn't such a similar output/production interest presume an intimately shared intake, reception of life or lifestyle? Or starting from the other end, spending up to 11 hours together five times a week is quite a commitment and surely allows for this relational closeness. At the same time, you say you have very independent private and social lives; I don't se how you can have the time to have a social life outside the studio and how that could be so independent? Does that mean there is no contact outside the studio between the two of you, I assume not?

CASEY: THERE IS OF COURSE SOCIAL CONTACT BUT VAN HAS HIS FRIENDS I HAVE MINE, HE HAS HIS LOVE I HAVE MINE... THERE ARE A LOT OF OVERLAPS, I DON'T HAVE A FRIEND THAT DOESN'T KNOW VAN AND VICE VERSA BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T HANG OUT EVERYDAY AFTER WORK.  THERE IS A PROFOUND LEVEL OF SIMILARITIES IN THE INTAKE AND LIFESTYLE THAT YIELDS THE WORK.  WE GREW UP IN THE SAME HOUSE, IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, WITH THE SAME SCHOOLS, SAME PARENTS, AND A LOT OF THE SAME FRUSTRATIONS THROUGHOUT CHILDHOOD AND NOW WE LIVE IN THE SAME CITY, DEAL WITH A LOT OF THE SAME SHIT. 

VAN: WE INTERACT OUTSIDE THE STUDIO. SOMETIMES WE GO TO THE SAME PARTIES. TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO A HALLOWEEN PARTY WITH SOME OTHER FRIENDS. OUR IDEAS ARE NOT 'ALWAYS' IN LINE WITH EACH OTHER. OUR PROCESS VARIES FROM PROJECT TO PROJECT, BUT IF ONE OF US MAKES SOMETHING THAT THE OTHER DOESN'T BELIEVE IN, IT GETS REWORKED UNTIL WE BOTH FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT. I IMAGINE IT'S LIKE A PRODUCER/DIRECTOR RELATIONSHIP ON A FILM. AFTER WES CRAVEN SHOT SCREAM FOR 2 WEEKS, HARVEY WEINSTEIN WANTED TO PULL HIM AND REPLACE HIM WITH ANOTHER DIRECTOR. CRAVEN INSISTED ON SHOWING HARVEY THE EDITED FIRST 10 MINUTES OF THE FILM BEFORE HE WOULD BACK DOWN. HARVEY AGREED. WEINSTEIN FELL IN LOVE WITH WHAT THE DIRECTOR HAD SHOT AND KEPT HIM ON. THE FILM WENT ON TO MAKE OVER $200 MILLION DOLLARS. SOMETIMES I'M HARVEY WEINSTEIN, SOMETIMES I'M WES CRAVEN. THE SAME GOES FOR CASEY. ON OTHER PROJECTS WE WORK SIDE BY SIDE. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION.

LF: How can you possibly want to spend so much time with your brother? 

CASEY: WE SHARE THE SAME VISION, WORK ETHIC, STYLE, AND GOALS.  PLUS WE ARE BROTHERS SO IT'S NOT LIKE A FRIENDSHIP, WHICH COULD END... BROTHERS FOR LIFE... FAMILY IS FAMILY AND IF WE WERE TO HATE EACH OTHER WE'D STILL BE BROTHERS.  NOT LIKE A TRADITIONAL WORKING RELATIONSHIP. WE ALSO HAVE VERY INDEPENDENT PRIVATE AND SOCIAL LIVES.

LF: I don't fully grasp your idea of brotherhood. If you would hate your brother you would still be brothers, yes, but that would be a rather meaningless relationship on an inter-personal level (while still being a phenomenological fact). You seem to express the idea that being brothers is informing a certain responsibility towards each other. I understand that being someone's brother or sister gives you a different insight into their reasoning, their frustration, in that sense, also their falling out with you or someone else. It helps to be protective of him or her too.

CASEY: OK, THAT'S A MOUTHFUL THERE... LET ME TRY TO ANSWER AS BEST AS I CAN; THE OLD SAYING BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER THIS IS SOMETHING I BELIEVE.  BEYOND THE TITLE ‘BROTHER’ SPENDING CHILDHOOD WITH A SIBLING CREATES A BOND THAT CANNOT BE REPLICATED IN FRIENDSHIP OR BUSINESS. THIS BOND IS SOMETHING TO ALWAYS FALL BACK ON. NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU KNOW SOMEONE, A FRIEND A LOVER WHATEVER YOU CAN NEVER KNOW THEM ON THE LEVEL THAT A PARENT KNOWS A CHILD OR A BROTHER KNOWS A SISTER. THIS IS TRUE IN DECIDING TO SHARE OUR CAREERS WITH ONE ANOTHER. ELABORATING ON THE IDEA THAT WE SHARE THE SAME GOALS WITH OUR CAREERS WE SHARE A LOT OF THE SAME GOALS IN OUR OWN (PERSONAL) FAMILY LIVES ALL OF THAT EQUALS A LOT OF SHARED CONFIDENCE, WE ARE BOTH PLAYING ON THE SAME TEAM AND TRYING TO WIN THE SAME COMPETITION.

LF: The two of you seem to share a pretty intense history of mutual care taking, which isn't necessarily the average brotherly experience. Do you feel that working together on some level could have an undercurrent of healing? You said, you ran away from home, are you now proving to each other that you are the strong ones, that you are the healthy, surviving kernel, while your family/your parents were (and I am totally guessing here) falling apart and felt sickening to you?

 CASEY: FELT SICKENING IS NOT ACCURATE. MY (CASEY'S) PROBLEMS AT HOME PRIOR TO ME MOVING OUT AT AGE 15 ARE ATTRIBUTED TO MY BAD BEHAVIOR MORE SO THAN PARENTAL SHORTCOMINGS. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT HEALING STUFF. 

VAN: WE COME FROM A FAMILY OF ADULT-CHILDREN AND CHILD-ADULTS. WE RAISED OURSELVES. OUR SISTER IS A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS WOMAN, AND OUR YOUNGEST BROTHER IS AN ORTHODOX JEW FIGHTER PILOT.  CASEY AND I HAVE AN UNSPOKEN FAMILIAL BOND THAT NO ONE IN OUR FAMILY— NOT OUR PARENTS, NOT DEAN OR JORDAN—SHARES. WE ARE ALSO THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE ROMANTIC LOVE IN OUR LIFE. CASEY IS MARRIED WITH A CHILD, AND I'M INVOLVED IN THE MOST ROMANTIC STORY I'VE EVER HEARD OF.

LF: I am trying to understand the difference between a friendship and brotherhood. I personally don't think that brother, or sisterhood, for that matter, does bond you automatically unless you choose to accept it as some "God given" responsibility that you base on the fact that you share the same blood or home. But even if you accept that responsibility it doesn't automatically mean that you can work with your siblings or share their belief-system, or lifestyle, to choose a more secular term. 

CASEY: NO, WE HAVE A SPECIAL BROTHERLY RELATIONSHIP...NOT TYPICAL BY ANY MEANS.

VAN: CASEY AND I COME FROM THE SAME POINT OF VIEW IN OUR FAMILY, I THINK.  THOUGH IT WAS NEVER SPOKEN ABOUT, I WAS AN OUTSIDER IN OUR FAMILY BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT I HAD A DIFFERENT FATHER. CASEY WAS THE MIDDLE KID AND FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS. AS THE FAMILY FELL APART, I WAS AWAY IN COLLEGE. AND HE HAD TO BE THE ADULT. HE IS ALSO BRILLIANT, WHICH CAN LEAD EITHER TO BECOMING A SERIAL KILLER OR A PERSON OF ACCOMPLISHMENT. IN OUR RELATIONSHIP, HE IS THE RATIONAL ONE AND I AM THE EMOTIONAL ONE.

LF: When did that production method start, when did you discover that you can do it? 

CASEY: WHEN I RAN AWAY FROM HOME IN 1996 I MOVED FROM CT TO VIRGINIA WHERE VAN WAS IN COLLEGE. WE DID A LOT TOGETHER INCLUDING CUSTOMIZING OUR MOPEDS AND BUILDING A MOPED RAMP TO DRIVE THE MOPEDS FROM THE DRIVEWAY INTO THE LIVING ROOM OF OUR HOUSE. WE HAVE ALWAYS WORKED WELL TOGETHER.

LF: You ran away from your parents to your brother. Did your parents pay his college; did they want you to come back? Why did you run away?

CASEY: I GOT INTO A FIGHT WITH MY MOM SHE SAID SHAPE UP OR GET OUT, SO I MOVED OUT. RAN TO MY BROTHER IS NOT ACCURATE, I MOVED IN WITH A FRIEND AND TOGETHER WE MOVED TO VA WHERE MY BROTHER LIVED.  I THINK MY PARENTS WANTED ME TO COME BACK… WHAT PARENTS WOULD WANT THEIR 15 YEAR OLD SON LIVING ON HIS OWN WITH NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER?  THAT SAID A FORMAL OR FORCEFUL REQUEST FOR ME TO COME HOME WAS NEVER GIVEN TO ME SO I NEVER MOVED HOME.  I AM 24 NOW AND TO THIS DAY HAVE NEVER ‘LIVED’ UNDER MY PARENTS ROOF SINCE THAT FIGHT WITH MY MOTHER.  NO HARD FEELING FOR MY PARENTS THOUGH… REALLY. 

LF: How did you two feel when Van left for college? It must have been a decisive moment in your relationship.

CASEY: I REMEMBER BEING 12 AND DRIVING HIM TO COLLEGE, MY MOM CRIED, I JUST REMEMBER BEING JEALOUS THAT HE GOT TO DO SOMETHING NEW.

 *Here are my answers to your thoughtful questions.  I found them in my "SENT" folder in my mail program. I sent my answers on Halloween as I was preparing my Lawrence of Arabia costume. The costume was a smashing success. I guess there may have been something wrong with your email address?  I have been out of the country for about a month, and I detest email, which doesn't always reach me as I use many different computers/software around the world. I once lost 10% of my grade in college because I refused to figure out the email system. It was American Cinema 1900-1946: The only film class I ever took.