Music Through Conversation

 

by Martin Simon

 

With a Slovakian-born composer living in New York, Martin Simon, about the elusive world of Conversational Music or so-called "Convers." This interview was compiled from personal letters, notes and conversations between Martin Simon and Noah Creshevsky, the composer and professor emeritus at Brooklyn College of the City University of New York.

 

 

You talk about conversation in music. In a regular, spoken conversation one person speaks and one person listens. How do you explain that in a musical conversation there may be two or more people playing or "musically talking" at the same time? Where is the conversation here?

 

In the most general meaning, "conversation" is a way of two or more people discussing various topics. Conversation implies intentionality.   I call that sense of purposeful intentionality the "action-and-reaction principle." If this principle is present, there is a foundation for a conversation.   If it is not present, the relationship between the participants is somewhat in a state of ignorance.

 

You say that conversation requires two or more participants, subject matter, and a sense of purpose. What happens when more than one person talks at the same time? Is that no longer a conversation?

 

Let's consider an example of two people. When one person talks while another listens (or vice versa), we have a conversation. Similarly, one person holding a pot while another pours water into it is an example of a non-verbal conversation. While the two examples differ in the essence of the activity, both examples fulfill the general principle of conversation. The first example--a sequential pattern in which one person talks at a time--is a linear activity. The second example--the pouring and gathering of water--is a concurrent activity.   

 

Analogically, one may begin to see that verbal conversation is not strictly a linear event, but a concurrent state of listening (holding a pot), and speaking (pouring the water). On the other hand, when we talk to someone, it does not automatically mean that the other person actually listens. In such a case, a conversation does not occur. Therefore the fourth requirement for a conversation is attention.

 

 That's clear now. How does this rule apply to music in particular?

 

Conversation in music happens either in a linear or concurrent way. One performer plays something while another performer tries to grasp his or her "intention" through a constant process of listening and reacting, musically. Attention spans vary from person to person and may often be unequal. Differences between individual performers are natural and contribute to the spontaneous flow of musical materials.

 

Is this musical conversation a composition?

 

 No. It may come from a composition or it can lead to a composition, but mainly it is a state of referencing to things we already know from prior experience or want to explore later. Musical conversation emerges from one's own unique interpretation of the musical materials at hand.   In contrast to strict realizations of fully notated scores, conversational music promotes the casual, fluid treatment of musical elements, including those represented by printed scores. Conversational music liberates the performer from the usual performer's role, by releasing him or her into a comfortable personal zone.

 

 You have a deep feeling for humanity and respect for the individual's contribution and voice. What inspired you to develop the concept of conversational music?

 

 I was not happy writing music the way I was, meaning that my personal performance did not adequately reflect the rigid indications of the musical score.   Often, I also did not feel convinced by the players' interpretations of the written page.   

 

 Plus there were many possibilities of variations running wildly in my head, but the necessity of committing something to paper required that I choose a single variation at the expense of excluding others. The nature of writing forces anyone to choose a single "best" solution, and to then induce others to rehearse and perform the rigidly notated phrase.   Fully notated scores--surely a correct path for many composers--did not feel right for me. I concluded that there must be a way that I could create comfortably with increased possibilities for personal interpretation and open interaction. A summary of my experiments to develop the concept of Convers Music is documented in the essay "Notes on Conversational Music."

 

 How does this music sound? How does one know when it is a spontaneous musical conversation and not a rehearsed act?

 

 For a typical listener it is not important if one recognizes it as an authentic conversation or not. Listeners are concerned about the sound of music. Either they like it or not. There may be untold numbers of pieces that one finds highly inspiring or terribly complicated (or terribly simple).

 

 Convers is not a style of music, it is a style of a person. The gestures of music are the gestures of the individual making them.   That elusive personal character makes it difficult to put a label on the musical result.   Nevertheless, one may sense improvisatory qualities in the textures, rhythms and articulations that are not readily expressed through performances of fixed scores.

 

 What is the difference between conversation and improvisation? Isn't the term "Conversational Music" just another way of saying the same thing?

 

 For me, improvisation in its purest sense is the building unit of any action. It is the first thing one does intuitively before learning (or never learning) the consequence of an action.  It is manifested in every moment of our lives, starting from the way we use our fingers to scratch our head before getting up from bed, to the way we bend over the washbasin in front of a mirror when brushing our teeth before falling to sleep (and far beyond). Improvisation moves in every and all directions.

 

 Conversation and improvisation both utilize improvisation as a stimulus to any action.  However, in a conversation one focuses a multi-directional improvised force on a particular goal with the intention of achieving that specific goal. Conversational Music is built with the same spirit as improvisation - the liberty to express our selves freely, but also requires a heightened level of attention - the desire to absorb and to give back.

 

 Is Conversational Music only present in unwritten formats or are there written examples, too?

 

 Conversational Music can be generated from themes both known and unknown. Conversation does not require notation but may be based on or inspired by it.

 

 Conversation is not reading a book; rather, it is talking about what happened in the book (or what will or will not happen).

 

 For example, "Anaconda" (a game for unspecified instruments) was conceived from its inception as a composition based on a conversational model. The preparation for a performance includes the players' familiarity with every page of the score, but it is understood that some pages may be played out of order, or not played at all, while other pages may be "discussed" vigorously.

 

April 2005

Definition of Conversational Music

 

Conversational Music is a musical language that is governed by the principles of spoken (verbal) communication. However, it is not a verbal language, nor does it fall under any specific musical category.

 

What loosely manifests itself in this music are the general principles of action and reaction in an authentic mutual interaction – in a personal, sincere, extemporaneous musical manner. Individual participants musically debate their personal remarks, interpretations and experiences. Through a personal musical language one becomes familiar with the authentic characteristics of a co-player, his or her viewpoints and opinions, strengths and weaknesses, the way he or she behaves under uncertain, variable conditions.

 

A complete mastery of any language (except for its essence –vocabulary) calls for a capability of reading, writing and conversing. Reading and writing relate to the visual symbols of receiving and transmitting (creating) meaning on paper; listening and speaking are their conversational sonic counterparts.

 

The fundamental building units of conversational music are the direct sonic (not written) idea and the corresponding sound color. The shape (form) of conversational music is discussion (conversation); it is not a recitation, individual acts or any other rhetorical form of a unilateral character. In a music conversation two or more independent parties (without predetermined absolute authority) participate explicitly and actively. The technique of this musical communication is improvisation, intuition, prior experience and imagination. The general principles are creativity, desire for understanding and substance over form.

 

The relative vocabulary of conversational music is only as rich and as lively as its personal and immediate use in a physical instant of a human contact (e.g. gathering).  It consists of jargon, ugly and/or pleasing words, inexact quotation, humor or a serious theme. It consists of repeated formulations of an idea, a wrongly articulated word as well as its subsequent correction, musical argument or agreement. Not least, characteristic personal incidental sounds are occasionally present (breathing, laughing, sighing, knocking, cheering, grumbling…).

 

Most of the work of conversational music ends there, whereas in other genres, the creation of a musical work usually begins (by eliminating, altering, adding and other manifestations of intellectual ennobling).

 

The purpose of creating an environment of conversation in music is to provide an opportunity for liberated personal conduct and confrontation, genuine recognition of one’s own immediate abilities, their examination and natural expansion.

  

 

There is no "undo" function in a real-time conversation; neither is there an undo function in real life. Time is only a one-way vector although it embraces us from every direction. We either fix our mistake right away (if we know how) or we hope not to repeat it. There is nothing like "let me erase this passage from my life as if it never happened"– it did just happen.  Writing is completely different. We polish our words and sentences, change the succession of thoughts, adjust grammar and spelling, switch paragraphs and so forth.

 

--Martin Simon

All material presented herein is   © 2004-2007 by ACI.